Sting Tolerance
Paul S LeRoy
email@omitted.anti.spam
Has anyone had experience with chemotherapy and
receiving bee stings after therapy. Does Chemotherapy
remove built up immunity? I have been around beekeeping
since childhood with my father then as a hobby beekeeper
and have been stung thousands of times with nothing more
than swelling if stung on lips, eyes, etc. I am now
undergoing chemotherapy for bladder cancer that has
spread to my lungs. Doctors say that we will very likely
be able to get it under control since it was caught
early. They also say that if we get it into remission
that I should be able to do the things I like to do which
will include working my bees and with those that I have
gotten into beekeeping. I would certainly like to
correspond with anyone who has undergone chemotherapy and
continued to work with bees. Thanks,
Paul LeRoy
email@omitted.anti.spam
Paul,
So sorry to hear of your problems! It is awful to get
old. My wife died of cancer in December, and she was
admitted to the hospital on our 59th wedding
anniversary.
I am just a scientist, not a medical doctor. However,
the great majority of chemotherapy drugs contain
anti-inflammatory compounds which will cancel your sting
immunity as long as you take the drug. Once you stop, and
start being stung again, you can rebuild your sting
immunity.
Because of my wife's hospitalization, I had to miss
the ABF meeting in Kansas City, my first miss in over 20
years.
My age and my five strokes have forced me to cut back
on colonies to just 20 now, which I work from the back of
a golf cart. 20 keeps me busy, but it is a far cry from
the 100+ I had for years.
George Imirie
Kathy E Cox
email@omitted.anti.spam
George,
Are you saying that anti-inflammatory compounds make
bee stings worse? I just got stung for the first time
this year, yesterday. I was getting out of my suit and
one flew into my hair. I have curley hair, so I ran to
the bathroom to get my fork like comb. Combed her right
on to my right thigh where she got me. My bite is hard,
red and hot. Looks like a fried egg! I take
anti-imflammatory drugs for my arthritis.
kathy
Mary Kellogg
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Hi all,
I am a family physician. Can't help chiming in to
clear some misconceptions. As far as I know, Chemo drugs
can supress one's immune system and inflammatory
response. The same is true for anti-inflammatories like
Prednisone (steroids), but not really for things like
Motrin, Advil, Celebrex. This means that, if you are
stung, your body won't mount the same response if you are
on those drugs/meds. The inflammation (and pain) around
the sting site would be lessened.
You don't completly wipe out your ability to mount a
response unless you are on significant doses of meds.
Also, once you are off the meds, your immune response
should recover.
I would think that the benefits of venom therapy would
be lessend as long as you are on the chemo drugs, but it
should come back. I'm not an expert on venom therapy,
however.
Wishing you luck with your treatments.
Mary in CT
Bill Truesdell
email@omitted.anti.spam-maine.net
Ibuprofen (and similar drugs) is one of the problem
drugs that can cause increased sensitivity to stings. I
do not know what the level of dosage is that can bring on
problems but for me it was a matter of a couple of weeks.
I did have a mild allergic reaction (hives) that I had
never had before. I had to take ibuprofen because of
muscle inflammation, but quit and shifted to Tylenol and
aspirin and have had no problems since.
BTW- I do sting myself twice a year for arthritis, per
directions of Charlie Mraz. I discount most "alternative
medicine", but sings did work for me dramatically. (Could
not figure out why I was fairly pain free in the summer
and not in the winter until we invited Charlie to our
Annual Meeting, then figured out it was the few bees that
got past my armor plate.)
Bill Truesdell
Bath, Maine
email@omitted.anti.spam
Hello Kathy,
No, anti-inflammatory drugs do NOT make stings
worse.
However, most beekeepers develop some immunity to
stings each year, and generally, the more times one gets
stung, the more immunity the body develops.
The problem is that anti-inflammatory drugs negate
that immunity that one has developed each year, and that
person has to start all over to re-develop it.
The sting you got is perfectly normal - red,
swollen, sore, and hard, It will disappear in a few days
and then it will itch like mad for 2-3 days. All
perfectly normal. Often, beginners, scared, visit an
allergist about these things, and 90% of the time the
allergist tells them to STOP beekeeping. This is because
99% of ALL allergists don't known the first thing about
honey bee stings! Of course, they had to learn about them
to pass an allergist test in school, but they did not pay
much attention because they wanted to go where the MONEY
is - treating HAY FEVER.
A personal story: I started raising bees in June 1933,
and became highly skilled because of my interest in
Science (retired atomic nuclear physicist), and did not
get stung very much even though I had 60 colonies in
1963, thirty years later. One day, I had a bad situation
in my apiary and got about 50-60 stings. In a few
minutes, I became a little short of breath, so I went to
the local hospital, who gave me a shot of adrenaline and
told me to STOP beekeeping. Shortly after, I was told
about the two Ph.D. and M.D. scientists, Golden and
Valentine, at Johns Hopkins University who did NOTHING
except research on bee and wasp stings. JH is only 45
miles from my house, so I went to see them. They simply
told me that I was not getting ENOUGH STINGS, and what
happened to me was normal. Their prescription was "get
stung almost every day including the winter". I have been
doing that the past 40 years, rarely wear a veil, work my
bees in shorts and no shirt in the hot summer, and I
never swell or itch unless I am stung in the eyelid,
inside my ear, or my lip.
You said you liked my PINK PAGES. You will NEVER
become a beekeeper if you wear gloves. Gloves make bees
sting you. Work bare-handed, get a few stings (that will
teach you what you are doing wrong), and you will develop
some immunity to stings depending on how many you get. By
the Way, our BEE INSPECTORS are prohibited from wearing
gloves, because of transfer of disease; and most bee
inspectors are sting immune because they get stung on
their hands almost every day.
Even though I don't wear a veil very often, I am
foolish and wrong. I tell all students to ignore what I
do, but do what I say - WEAR A VEIL! But get rid of those
gloves!
Almost forgot - The pain of a bee sting which is
intense for perhaps 1 minute is just as bad when you have
been stung thousands of times as the first sting, but
that is a small price to pay for all the hours of
pleasure that I receive from daily trying to learn more
about bees, savoring my success, and finding the joys
of beekeeping.
I hope I have helped.
George Imirie
Jerry Bromenshenk
email@omitted.anti.spam
George,
Nice summary of bees and allergies. One of our local
allergist worked with beekeeper families, so he's up to
speed. He turned around one of my students who began to
react badly and she went on to graduate work with bees.
Overall, I agree with you. Most emergency room staff also
think that a normal reaction means that people should
give up beekeeping. Somewhere I have a book on the topic.
It warns that shortness of breath, racing heart beats, or
swelling involving TWO major joints (e.g. extending from
hand past the elbow) should be attended to immediately.
Don't know about you, but I've never had that degree of
swelling, although I saw it in my father many years ago
when he got stung on the finger from a wasp on the
steering wheel of a tractor. The swelling puffed up his
hand and stopped at his wrist watch (leather band). When
he removed the watch, the swelling rolled up his arm like
a wave to his shoulder. Naturally, we took him to the
emergency room.
All in all, better safe than sorry. But be sure the
person attending you knows something about bee venom and
what's truly an allergic reaction.
Finally, you said "The pain of a bee sting which is
intense for perhaps 1 minute is just as bad when you have
been stung thousands of times as the first sting, but
that is a small price to pay for all the hours of
pleasure that I receive". Like you, my stings rarely
swell, never itch. If the stinger hits a nerve ending, it
still hurts (especially on the ear lobes). However, I
often don't feel stings in my hands or arms, or only feel
a small prick. Its not unusual for me to look down at the
end of a day and see a stinger or two in my fore arms and
can't remember having been stung. Wonder if that's true
of others?
Jerry
Claire Chavasse
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Dear Paul,
I see that you have had several replies answering you
query about Chemotherapy removing built up immunity. It
is a subject I know nothing about. I received
Chemotherapy between February 1995-June 1996, initially
at 7-10 day intervals. I am a hobbiest beekeeper and
during that time I continued to work my colonies,
sometimes with help sometimes on my own. I got stung
occasionally, but don't remember reacting any more
severely than usual. But then my drugs would have been
very different to yours. However I credit my recovery
from Cancer to two things, medical science and my bees.
Not certain what proportion to allocate to each! I found
lifting off a crown board and just entering the bees'
world, shut out other worries that I might have had at
the time. I tired more quickly, so I paced myself. Good
luck Paul and I hope that you will continue to enjoy your
bees.
Claire Chavasse,
Co. Waterford, Ireland.
Michael Palmer
email@omitted.anti.spam
It's not unusual for me to look down at the end of
a day and see a stinger or two in my fore arms and can't
remember having been stung. Wonder if that's true of
others?
Certainly is with me. Sometimes on my neck too.
Then...there are those spots...yours is the ear lobe?
Mine is my nose septum. Sometimes I wonder if they see
that area differently. They sure are drawn to it.
Mike
Robert Barnett
email@omitted.anti.spam
Absolutely true.
I have made the following comment before, regarding
gloves, which I don't use twice in a summer of hobby
beekeeping. If one uses pinestraw for smoker fuel (the
very best of fuels), heat your smoker fairly hot to
begin, and smoke hands and bare arms generously, so that
the vaporized smoker volatiles precipitate off on cooler
skin; bees simply can't then identify your animal odor,
and hardly ever sting. Vinegar will do the same, tho much
less well. I have tried Liquid Smoke, but it did not work
well, in my opinion. Check this out, I think you will
like it.
If you catch a sting on the hand, immediately give the
place a blast of smoke and it will obliterate the sting's
target odor; not forgetting the other variables (e.g.,
carbon dioxide in your breath, possibly leading them to
attack nares and mouth, the former mentioned by a recent
respondant).
Bob Barnett
B'ham AL
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